Showing posts with label NCR. Show all posts
Showing posts with label NCR. Show all posts

August 24, 2016

I prefer collecting items not intended to be collected


Now here's something I can collect. Indeed, I think we should make a real effort to get these properly accepted as 'stamps' and someone might make a catalogue of the various types available in due course.

I am talking about labels like this that actually get used on post. Not a lot, admittedly, but in my experience, a lot more than the Post And Gos that we are sold invariably in strips of six and with either a pretty picture or some text marking some event or worthy place and which will probably only appear on an envelope if a customer has ordered used copies.

I would also suggest that it is a used collection that we should aim for. I guess it would be comparatively simple to find someone to print out some mint examples and, whilst that's OK, it would be the postally used examples that would be the most difficult to build up and which, potentially, could be the more interesting and valuable in years to come when another generation takes a fresh look at all this.

What I am pretty certain about is that the mint Post And Go issues of the other type, even those with just a few days' Exhibition or similar life, will seldom be particularly sought after in years to come. In so far as they can be used in place of normal stamps in future, the Post And Gos will have a value but I suspect it will be often be rather lower than the equivalent face value which doesn't make them the best of investments either. Obviously there is a good chance that postal rate rises will outstrip inflation and rates available from banks and building societies in the foreseeable future but you would be better holding sheets of much easier to sell and use first or second class stamps than all the strange Europe and Worldwide rates you've been filling stock books with to date.

It is not really about its potential value but more about promoting a simple, good old-fashioned collection that I like this idea. My collection of these items is a pathetic dozen or so but it is far more appealing than all the pristine strips I had accumulated.

It needn't be a Machin thing either as here are some mint items from the Spring Flowers issue:





August 03, 2014

Something a stamp collector would collect


This is a Collectors' Pack prepared by The Post Office in 2009. It contains specially printed versions of the then new Post&Go labels. They're really quite different from the actual labels - check out the code inscription on the real ones below for a start.


The specially produced pack, though, is the most expensive Post&Go item in the 2014 SG Concise Catalogue. That doesn't seem right to me - you'd think the real ones which someone had to go and get from a machine somewhere would be a lot more valuable than something akin to a decorative plate that you could get on-line or, I suppose more likely then, with a phone call.

It is odd too that the Philatelic Bureau didn't (and still don't) supply real labels - ones that might stand some chance of being used in a postal way. (Whether we do or not is up to us. I like mint stuff because it's nice and clean and easy to see which variety it is and also I can get missing ones for gaps much more easily but I have a lot of respect for those who collect used items and am beginning to think that their collections, even with the inevitable gaps it will have unless they've been sending stuff to themselves, are rather more honest.) Even I do little to acquire my issues these days - they all come on standing orders although I have to say I still have a huge amount of work to do to file them and record them somehow but I haven't made much effort to find them in the first place.

So with all this in mind it is odd that several dealers and Mr Gibbons himself have announced that the Open Value labels are not stamps and they'll neither be stocking nor including them in catalogues.


To my mind these are far more like the stamps of old that I had to go to a Post Office to buy. I am still a bit confused as to why we have both the Post&Gos with service indicators spelt out in a large font as well as these. I am guessing these will slowly replace the others as I understand that the machines can dispense a much bigger range than the few in the current form.

Unless I have missed something, the only difference between the two would be that the new style have to be used on the day they're issued whereas the others can be hoarded for years and used at some point in the future. Ah! Is that a pertinent factor for dealers? If the items have no validity for post a few hours after being dispensed then a dealer's stock value has no bottom floor. There will always be someone who'll buy mint 'stamps' - and as time passes rate increases should ensure that even offering a discount on face value need not mean making a loss - but the only people who can determine a price for the new items are us collectors. (I am taking the collectors' side here as I'm not much of a dealer really) No-one wants to be in our hands! Imagine: we could all decide that some issue is very tedious and not wish to pay more than a few pence for them but get very excited over another and the dealers will have no idea what to expect.

Well, maybe they should. Careful observation of the market should give the smart ones a good idea of what is likely to be in demand and where shortages might mean decent prices can apply. Take the extraordinarily short period when the items illustrated were available. A few days after these were printed the rates rose to 53p and 62p and you won't see either rate again in those colours unless something very strange happens like predictions of negative inflation prove correct but then we'll have more problems than whether dealers should list these items to worry about.

At least in writing this I have envisaged some vaguely reasonable explanation for why some dealers don't want to stock these things but I do still dispute this business of whether or not they are 'stamps'. They may not satisfy some old definition but as far as I'm concerned they're something a stamp collector would collect. and if what a stamp collector collects isn't stamps then we need a different name. But we'll still collect them, whatever they're called. How about notstamps?


August 02, 2014

The little boy in the village test - Part 2

In my last article I tried to explain why I would not be collecting or listing quite a large range of Post And Go issues - the ones that I really don't feel have ever been 'available' to anyone other than the people who sell them.

Now I am extending that still further, from the limited issue Machin definitive Post And Gos to the overprints that, by and large, were also only available at exhibitions and fairs. The same logic works for them. I never actually liked them anyway as it seemed that commercial organisations were getting space on stamps. I have nothing against Stampex, The BPMA and the like but simply don't see why they need to promote themselves on what I had thought were British definitive issues. That, of course, is where I had gone wrong. They aren't definitive issues. They are specialist labels that happen to be printed on similar backing to the stamps available to the public and whilst they can be used postally they really never seem to be. I mean, there are few enough of any Post And Gos on our post these days as it is, never mind the chances of encountering one of these with an overprint as well.

Mr Gibbons says that overprints were only available from those limited outlets but I am not so sure about that. I believe there may be one or two that have been more freely available to the public and it is important that we don't chuck out the valid collection babies with the specialist bath water.

I am going to have a bit of a job figuring out which to keep in the list and may remove all to start with and re-introduce any deserving cases when I get to know about them from my research. I know there are some real experts out there and maybe they might like to help. Clearly whoever has been advising Mr Gibbons knows his stuff but I feel he might have advised a little more carefully on one or two items, even if they were not likely to get far out in the wild. They might have reached my little boy in the village. His Granny might just have happened to buy one from a machine somewhere.

OK, point taken, let us assume, please, that Granny is not a Stampex fan.

So most of my overprint listings are going to disappear from the sheet and end up on Ebay in a week or so, along with the 'scarce' Machin types too.

Now, you're wondering. What on Earth is he going to do about the pictorial issues?

Well, I had previously abandoned the silly Presentation Packs. While they had specially printed versions that no-one is ever going to use on a letter and which are just going to stay in a plastic envelope then they seem no more than an advert. If anything, the Post Office should be giving these to us collectors, maybe when we buy a real set or something. But they are definitely pointless. There may be some examples where real labels, the same as those available to buy, are in the packs and they can stay. I haven't thought yet which might be in this category, if any!

Now I have to accept that the 'normal' ones are pretty much like the commemorative or special issues we've all got used to seeing. I gave up collecting them many years ago and really have not missed anything. Looking at the prices, too, there appears to be nothing of much value either, many sets from recent years being available at less than face value if you look hard too! The only real interest I had in the pretty ones was the variation in font styles that existed and the fact that some came with Worldwide 40g or whatever. Because they didn't commemorate anything they fooled me into regarding them as a bit 'definitive'. I had often written in years gone by about what might replace Machins and pretty stamps like these illustrations seemed likely candidates. So when they appeared I was a bit taken in. Now I just see them as labels with six different pictures on. Heavens! Remember the days when we felt we needed to have each value with each denomination. Mr Alan still supplies these as they are, indeed, different. I even got some for a couple of issues but at £77 for each set - and there were, of course, two types - that was way out of order. I think now what else I could have bought with £154. A really nice old Victorian stamp. Some mint early high values. All kind of lovely - and much safer as investment - stuff too.

So I am going to continue listing the pretty issues - those that are available generally, that is. Most of them are, I believe. It is the Flags and Robins that have complicated geneology but I'll figure it out eventually. I don't want to collect them myself, though, so my collection of all kind of weird and wonderful items - some with huge fonts and missing text but mostly just fairly boring - will be on Ebay soon too. That includes the 72 items I mentioned and also there are 30 Birds III with the wrong font I which I paid nearly £300 for. Good grief. Some nice items coming  for those of you in that Specialist pen in the field!

That will leave me with just the public issue Machins and one or two others. A modest collection but, to be quite honest, that's all these particular Post And Gos are going to be - a modest collection of items available for a while before something more permanent comes along.

I might have been inclined to think that the new NCR type Post And Gos would be that new something. However, Mr Gibbons doesn't mention them. That may be because they were issued too late for his catalogue. I personally think he hadn't decided at the time so just took the easy option! Mr Alan has placed his cards firmly on the table, though. "They're not stamps," he says. Apparently that's because they can only be supplied one at a time and have to be used straightaway. I reckon they're much more like a 'stamp' to the little boy in the village than any of those hundreds of pounds worth of Wincor, or was it Hytech, font style 2 with short phosphor and value overlapping the picture that came from one machine on a Tuesday in a room on the third floor of a building in York.

I am quite surprised that neither Mr Alan nor Mr Gibbon are supporting the NCR invasion. As I see it, machines are being enthusiastically installed at more and more Post Offices and they are, of anything, the most likely to be actually seen on some post. They replace the white printed labels type which I agree were never stamps as such. Interestingly, I have seen piles of the big gold Horizon labels. They have been very successful and if these NCR labels were to be used for the Horizon purposes too then that would be very interesting.

It is difficult when there could be so many values available but isn't that part of the fun of collecting? Dealers could do well supplying the full range for those who go for the easy route of collecting by standing order. Who knows, maybe Tallents House will beat them all to it! I detected some surprise at their issue of a 'Collectors' Pack' with five examples of them, describing them as Post And Gos in the write-up.

So I shall be listing these as best I can, with limited awareness of what is coming out and when but I'll try to get some information. Offers of help gratefully welcomed!

While I am on the subject of collecting stamps I have been feeling for some time now like one of those old people that collects decorated plates and gets a new one every month on standing order. They cost far more than she'll ever get back and they're never going to be used as plates. I may have cut out the special issues but I still get the Prestige books. I have always been taken in by these splendidly produced little booklets and would rush to see what was in that Machin definitive pane. I seldom noticed what else was in the book. For a while, these books were quite desirable and fetched good prices. After the first one or two, though, few of the stamps got used and more recently that became highly unlikely when they were priced at a figure higher than the sum of their contents. These books are the old lady's plates. They look lovely, can be quite interesting but the only reason I have been getting them is to have examples of those two or three variations of definitives or Regional issues that they contain. I know they'll never see the light of a postal day but the completeness drug is difficult to quit. What I need to do, I think, is keep the pane but use or the rest or sell them. Once a book's content might be predominantly Machin definitives, with several panes, but now it is usually just the single pane with special issues occupying most of the panes. So where before it might have made sense to keep the whole book - because it comprised just the panes I wanted to keep and because it had a significant value intact - now I am not so sure that is the case. One or two will always be a bit special but many may struggle on the open market to return face value. So I may just as well keep the ones I need for the definitive completeness and sell the rest.

Looking at most of the output for us collectors now, we really are being regarded by the marketing boys as the little old ladies with plates rather than the little boy in the village. We'll take without much question whatever comes out, stick it in a box, an album or wherever things go nowadays and not think a great deal more about it. The only real stamps are the definitives and a few special issues that get issued at post office counters or put in books that people buy day to day and that eventually get stuck on envelopes and packages. Like the normal definitives, some Post And Gos, some NCRs, even Horizon labels - the things the little boy in the village will want. The rest is pure income generation. We all need to wise up a bit.

You know what would make a really cool stamp collection? What we did when we were little - collect used stamps. Now that was collecting. What we do now is just buying. Anyone can do that, especially when you get old and haven't so many other things to pay for.

That's what the little boy in the village should want. Stamps that may cost nothing. Dealers can still supply ones to fill the gaps - and there'll be a lot of those if his mail looks anything like mine.

June 25, 2014

Rare stamps!!

real stamps on an envelope!

I actually got some stamps on an envelope in the mail this morning. The fact that it was from another dealer in Machin stamps says it all really. Are we the only people who are now using these? Is this 'collecting' lark merely a sort of self-perpetuating affair where Royal Mail know that we're the only people buying them and just produce all sorts of variations for the fun of it and watch contentedly as people like me write articles encouraging you to acquire this or that?

Oh well, for the benefit of those who are still awake and wondering what is new out there, here are the latest developments and issues.


The first is a 2nd Large DLR with M14L date code. Then there's a book of 12 Walsall 2nd CB showing M14L MTIL which will doubtless be the most frequently found stamp on post this year so not exactly worth a fortune but needed nonetheless if you're going to keep that collection complete.


Next we have three more DLR items. A 10p, 20p  and 1st Large showing M14L.




Now there's is something surprising. A new Post And Go print showing both Euro 20g and World 10g which are now the same price but it must have been confusing for people wanting to send something 9g to somewhere that wasn't in Europe. To be honest, I get confused by the rates and weights anyway and really do wonder whether this idea of NVIing everything is that bright after all.


It all started with 1st and 2nd and then E came along when we had a perfectly adequate 34p stamp (or whatever the rate was at the time). I suppose it did mean that we could buy stamps and carry on using them after a rate change and got a little bit of satisfaction from the fact that spending all that money in advance had saved us a few pence later. So those made some sense and it always seemed pretty reasonable to buy an Airmail envelope (actually, maybe that was where it started now I think about it) and just pay whatever the latest price was for the flimsy sheet of blue paper.

The latest flurry of activity around these rates and weights, though, seems to be heading for confusion. They are trying to hang on to six for the 'collector's strips' as all sorts of problems will develop if there are numbers like 11 or 5. The NCR machine putting values on the labels seems to be going back to the original idea of a stamp but just adding the value at the end instead of us having to buy a range and make up the rate ourselves.

For now, though, the Post And Gos continue apace with these two overprint issues, 'The B.P.M.A. on Flags and Machin olives. Both these have the new dual value although here in Type 4 font at the same point size for both lines, unlike the NCR Type 2a font with its different sizes.


The Machin Post And Gos here all have an MA13 date code. I imagine there must be a lot of that year's backing around so it could be some time before we see MA14. The NCRs below are the 'normal' basic set which I think I have featured before but that may have been with no date code or a strip I had earlier. the Worldwide 10g and 40g values will exist as these were still in being when the first NCRs appeared and will be worth hanging on to.


Of course, there is still no mention from some dealers of the other NCRs - the ones with the actual values printed that I have written about recently. I am still none the wiser as to whether they are indeed likely to be a myriad different denominations for those. I am pretty sure there will be - a similar range to those we see on Horizon labels seems logical although perhaps the 'Signed For' denominations and one or two others can't be included because there would need to be some paperwork kept behind the counter and if someone had to queue up afterwards to hand that over it defeats the purpose of the automatic machines.


So far, I have to say that by far the most common labels I am seeing on post are the Horizon gold ones. They're awkward to collect but do seem to be the range that is surviving. I will write about them in an article soon.


June 02, 2014

Slightly more interesting... NCRs


 

So here are the first NCR 'Open Value' labels on Spring Flowers that I have seen. In fact they're the first on any pictorial Post and Go label that I've seen. These are the new denominations, as are the Machins that I have also acquired. 

Now I still don't know whether these represent all that can be obtained or whether, by pressing different buttons, other codes and denominations can be printed, as listed and suggested, or should I say, feared, in an earlier post. 

Whilst I think the Machin head issues are a must for any GB definitive (and, of course, any Machin) collector I am not sure I feel duty bound any more to keep up with the pictorials. It's good to have some early examples of almost any series but, if this style becomes standard then I am seriously considering collecting just the Machin head items. I suppose that'll have to include the ruddy overprints which I dislike but just feel very relieved that they're not on ordinary definitives!

I do collect pictorial definitives for Regional issues but they have been extremely modest in output. In 5 years there have been 67 different pictorial labels. That's just the picture, no account taken of fonts, date codes or whatever. The Regional Pictorials over 14 years have been just four main and a few odd additional items for each of the four nations. And if there has been a change then we haven't had to buy six denominations for each image! 

As it is my understanding that any roll can be fitted into the NCR style machines, there is a possibility of almost any of those 67 designs appearing. OK, some must be pretty remote but they're the ones that make the headlines and we all wish we'd found. This business of stamp collecting is all about completeness - you really do want to feel that you stand some vague chance of getting a complete set of things. I just don't feel that way about the Post And Go pictorials now, especially now with the NCR potential for huge additions to the series, old rolls being found in cupboards and six more of each for every rate change introduced.

If it wasn't for the fact that I have only recently added back in Post And Go overprints on a standing order with a dealer I would cancel any new pictorials now. I can live without Flowers II, III and whatever comes next. I could happily watch news of the latest overprint on Dogs IX appearing on NCR 60g varieties in font style 8.5. The Machins would be more than enough. I think I had better wait for a few months though and just try and sell all the pictorial stuff that I have and comes in.

I do think I have finally come to a conclusion. Basically - stick to Machins. Duh, of all people, I really should have figured that out long ago!

April 12, 2014

38 denominations and counting

Sometimes I don't quite know why I do things but I wondered just how many different denominations might appear at current rates on the new NCR Post And Go Labels. I guess these may also be what you'd find on Horixon labels too. I haven't covered huge great packages or International Tracked or all sorts of Special Delivery before, during and after breakfast services. The list below, though, should cover all the prices up to about £5. It may be of interest to someone.

If anyone cares to let me have the previous rates then I can add them to this table and that would then be a pretty complete list. Having said that, I don't yet know whether the NCR labels can, indeed, be used for all these services. It may be that some aren't possible. That would be nice to know and I could then cut the list down a bit.

One thing's for sure. I have now decided that I shall not be setting out to collect mint examples of each one!

£ PriceTypeWeightService
0.532nd Class Letter<100g td="">UK Std
0.621st Class Letter<100g td="">UK Std
0.732nd Class Large Letter<100g td="">UK Std
0.81Small Parcel<20g td="">Int Economy
0.931st Class Large Letter<100g td="">UK Std
0.97Letter<10g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1Worldwide Z2
0.97Letter<20g td="">Int StandardEurope
1.172nd Class Large Letter<250g td="">UK Std
1.241st Class Large Letter<250g td="">UK Std
1.28Letter<20g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1Worldwide Z2
1.43Letter<60g td="">Int Economy
1.47Letter<60g td="">Int StandardEurope
1.482nd Class Large Letter<500g td="">UK Std
1.632nd Class Letter<100g td="">Signed For
1.721st Class Letter<100g td="">Signed For
1.832nd Class Large Letter<100g td="">Signed For
2.012nd Class Large Letter<750g td="">UK Std
2.02Letter<100g td="">Int Economy
2.031st Class Large Letter<100g td="">Signed For
2.15Letter<60g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1Worldwide Z2
2.272nd Class Large Letter<250g td="">Signed For
2.341st Class Large Letter<250g td="">Signed For
2.36Letter<100g td="">Int StandardEurope
2.381st Class Large Letter<750g td="">UK Std
2.582nd Class Large Letter<500g td="">Signed For
2.751st Class Large Letter<500g td="">Signed For
2.80Small Parcel<1kg td="">UK Std
2.80Small Parcel<100g td="">Int Economy
3.112nd Class Large Letter<750g td="">Signed ForSigned For
3.20Small Parcel<1kg td="">UK Std
3.20Letter<100g td="">Int StandardEurope
3.481st Class Large Letter<750g td="">Signed For
3.48Letter<100g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1Worldwide Z2
3.65Small Parcel<250g td="">Int Economy
3.70Small Parcel<250g td="">Int StandardEurope
3.80Small Parcel<2kg td="">UK Std
3.80Small Parcel <100g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1
3.90Small Parcel<1kg td="">Signed For
4.00Small Parcel <100g td="">Int StandardWorldwide Z2
4.30Small Parcel<1kg td="">Signed For
4.75Small Parcel<250g td="">Int StandardWordwide Z1
4.90Small Parcel<2kg td="">Signed For
5.05Small Parcel<250g td="">Int StandardWorldwide Z2

April 10, 2014

I shall just have to start writing to myself

These are a couple of items from the new NCR range that I have obtained. The others I have are 2LG (69p), 1LG (90p), A Letter (under 10g 88p) A Letter (between 10g and20g £1.28) and A Letter (over 20g £1.88) which may or may not be complete as I am getting confused. Yes, Europe up to 20g seems to be missing. (If anyone can help with that, at the old rate, do let me know). These are all at the old rates so I suppose I now have to get another set at the new rates. That set will also be different in that some weight points were merged.

What I don't know, and hope someone will advise, is whether there will be also versions of these with other denominations - as for the Horizon labels which could result in a huge range of possible different prices being shown. At that point I wouldn't try and get any more than a basic range and anything else that appears in the post of bundles I get from time to time is nice but not essential.

Collecting British stamps has never been simple but now I feel we are going through a distinctly odd period when I think several variations of these labels will appear before finally. in time, a standard is settled upon. Some of these may well prove to be extremely short-lived and, not being available or even promoted by many people at all, will for many be items you'll kick yourself for having missed as prices for one or two of them soar.

I really can't imagine that there will many old rate examples used on mail at all. They're the things to look out for. Even current rates of normal Post And Go issues, never mind these, are scarce unless you happen to have a lot of customers living near towns with machines. Actually, now I think about it, I'm lucky to get any stamp nowadays!


April 04, 2014

All change. Like a stamp, really.

Oh boy. Look at what is now being issued.


It seems that there are some new NCR machines have been installed - the first was actually in Harpenden, Hertfordshire, not far away from me at all! This is what they are producing after rather a lot of screen touches, I am reliably informed. The stamps have what is termed Open Value so are similar to the gold Horizon labels and have a letter to specify the service and the post cost is displayed. 

Example showing the old rates will be in short supply so I would recommend getting those wherever you can from a decent dealer. The machines have only been operational in a few places since the beginning of March so the old rates were applicable for just a few weeks at most.

From here, you need to consider just what to collect. My first thoughts on these would be that I will need one from each type of service. Maybe I should rephrase that; I would like one from each type (as I have no idea how many there will be or how easy some would be to obtain). A standing order would, I presume, be one of the standard rate items for each 'issue'. Some will want them on each design within an issue too. Not me.

I still have a lot to learn about these. For instance, I have seen examples where the destination post code is printed on the label. I guess this is a choice at a screen where you can either print to use there and then or perhaps use on whatever you like later, like a NVI but, of course, with value indicated. Like a stamp, really.